On that point why are T2BPO not being seeded onto Serenity or any more onto Tranq? I mean T2BPO's are great yes? Oh wait no they suck and are in dire need of removal.

I'm not even an industrial player

They can't copy those BPOs?

Oh, "you don't have degree in economics" card.

Do you even know how long it takes to get 10.0 standing with faction, 10.0 sec status and moon in hisec? Especially with pure industry trained character with very little combat skills.

Ok, let's use T2 invul BPO again because you people like it so much.

Only 100 runs per T2 BPC. What are chances that inventor even gets 100 run T2 BPC? Usually close to 10 runs per T2 BPC. Akita T owns T2 BPO and can do as many runs as she has materials for.

Invention takes time and money just to get that 10 run BPC.

And you can't do that with T2 BPOs? There's like 5000 T2 invul BPOs in the game.

Tell me again how BPOs have to be left in POSes to research and Anchoring POSes requires 10.0 Faction Standing and 10.0 Sec Status.

I never said I have office in NYC.

Getting one would cost billions. Large POS already costs 1-2 billion a month to run. And that's labs offline.

Any reason why I should use something else other than large deathstar/****star in hisec?

Are you sure devs don't have more of them? I've heard they play this game too.

No office in NYC = no corp hangar = BPO must be in POS.

In 1.0 system you need those.

If POS is in system without stations or CORP DOESN'T have OFFICE in that system, BPOs must be in POS. What part of that you don't understand?

And how there's towers in 0.8 and 0.9 systems then?

I can see all nearby towers in d-scan. I've also seen few in 0.8 and 0.9 systems just by warping around.

I'd be happy if invention was buffed beyond T2BP or if invention actually made items beyond T2 ie T2-B items that had slightly better stats or fitting requirements than current T2. This would allow bitter vets to keep their free hand out while making them irrelevant for inventors.

Why? You would get huge profit using it.

That's same profit I get. Could be higher if I could get materials faster to build more.

You calculated it wrong.

Even less profit at these prices.

If I want to manufacture most of the components, why I'm not allowed to do that?

So, T2 BPO owners can compete against inventors after all.

I said it a long time ago...

So, basically, you just want to remove the remote research and manufacture skills, and remove the ability to lock down stuff, and nothing else.

Last time I checked Tech holders make profit from every Hulk destroyed even though they pay for it.

Most important reason for Hulkageddon was to create those profits to Hulk BPO owners. It's very likely that Heicity and Goons owns most of the Hulk BPOs.

Not if you own like 10 of them.

Clueless as always? Goonies own all Tech moons and most of the Hulk BPOs. 1 + 1 = 2?

They get trillion from their moons every month.

They're planning on taking all Cobalt moons. They already own some of them.

They've known about the nerf a month or two. You asked why they would buy T2 BPOs they already own instead of taking all Cobalt moons from other alliances.

First: they don't need to buy those BPOs because they already own them.
Second: they are already taking all Cobalt moons from other alliances and have been doing quite some time.

But of course you should know about this or you're clueless about what your alliance is doing.

I was talking about originally instead of the lottery not now. Introducing more T2BPO's would be stupid.

I don't care if a T2BPO is worth billions I'd like to trade in my RP for one please.

Or, in other words, you CAN'T remove them, so the only reasonable alternative is to make them be worth less, earn less profits, and be less advantageous compared to invention.

The fact that you don't want them removed doesn't mean it can't be done.

bear in mind CCP's general policy of not taking away what they have given

No, that will be buff for T2 BPO owners.

I agree it's highly unlikely that CCP will stop handing out massive advantages to pet players.

As T2 production costs isk in materials so no it could not crash or people would simply reprocess items for materials.

It will help T2 BPO owners more. CCP is going to remove only disadvantage from T2 BPO.

T2 BPO owners will get more profit because material costs will be reduced.

Why only invention dominated prices?
Why it doesn't affect material costs for T2 BPO owners?

Why you keep mentioning the cost of BPO on every post? Like it's very difficult to get billions for nullbears. For example there was one big alliance that got 15 trillion (or something like that) removed from them not that long ago.

If BPO owners need less materials / module or ship they will get really big bonus to their profit.

T2 invuls for 50k? Yeah, not going to happen.

The cost of obtaining a BPO was 0 isk to a couple of billion ISK in RP. Never forget this fact. If T2BPO's were introduced at the cost of billions of isk and were sold at a set rate by CCP there would be no complaints.

CCP has removed all worth out of the EVE economy by introducing items that are worth billions of ISK with out billions of isk worth of effort being expanded by the players.

You mentioned that price of T2 modules/ships will drop a lot...



First of all, you don't have to invent anything. That's already huge advantage.
Second, price of moon materials will drop noticeably. (Needed for T2 production).
Third, T2 BPO owners need less materials to produce T2 module/ship.

I already know profit for T2 BPO owner is bigger than for inventor.

T2 BPO profit will go up after the buff. It can't drop if production costs drop and everything else stays the same.

Competitive market? Selling at a loss? What?

Who cares if there were more than 2 traders just follow the transaction trail applying negative balances if needs be.

Oh nice... More T2 BPO owners.

Hulk, Mackinaw and Skiff BPOs will be very good items to have. A lot of profit after Inferno 1.2 hits TQ.

CCP should give more free T2 BPOs.

Yes they were. Maybe some RP, but that has been easy, no effort income for years until CCP nerfed it recently.

Yes, they were easy to get.



Go to agent -> accept research project and log off. It has been like that from beginning.



And more alts you got more likely you got T2 BPOs.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

He says he wants to purchase them with research points not isk. Anyway I call upon CCP to destroy tech 3 manufacture by seeding t3bpo's.

Anyone who defends t2bpo either has access to it's overpowered manufacturing ability or is just plain dumb.

CCP please ruin T3 by seeding T3BPO's. Please destroy Serenity server by dropping gifted items there too.

So, how it worked if RP wasn't any part of it?

English isn't the only language in the world.

You do that just to move goalpost. We all know that you own T2 BPOs.

Oh... we have expert here.

I'd be ready to bet that you can't complete one single sentence in Finnish or Swedish

If T2 BPOs are terrible investments then why do they still exists in-game?
Obviously there's something good in them.

- Profit
- Owner dominates market.

What is better investment?
Invention is one of the worst ways to earn isk.

Why you link these terrible ones? There's better BPOs out there.

I know how to do invention. Just not worth it. Nobody buys T2 BPCs.
Or I would have to wait months to sell one.

Did you research it on NPC station?

No, you didn't.

Not anymore since now everyone knows...

46 pages later, and you guys are STILL feeding the trolls. Amazing.

Still waiting for CCP to destroy the T3 manufacture by seeding T3BPO's. After all ''BPO's have no market effect'' said by a douche at ccp, so why should they not seed more BPO's both t2 and t3?

CCP grow some balls and fix your mistakes other wise follow through with them. Don't just stop at being half a tard either go full on tard by seeding more BPO's for t2 and t3 or actually gain some intelligence and remove T2BPO's.

You want a no risk, little effort, ISK-printing Mackinaw BPO? No.

That goes against everything Eve Online is about. In this way T2 BPOs are probably the worst feature in the game. Sorry, T2 BPO owners. With no other meaningful asset can you say "sorry this is mine and you can't have one like it, ever".

Yeah that's why I would love to be able to produce one of these from BPO. No risk, little effort income.

I think you're completely missing my point. I have no problem with trading stuff on market, forum, contracts, Chribba, etc.

My point is that with any item in the game I can work towards building or otherwise obtaining it without relying on getting it from someone who already has it (by hunting for the right officer spawn, by buying a BPO, by starting a factory job or putting up a POS, etc). For instance I can mine or make an alt and train him to help me mine. But I can never create a T2 BPO or create an alt to train him to make one.

I like your post, and the previous 2 posts you have up there as you read up

T2 BPO owners killed invention years ago.

BPCs: limited runs
BPOs: unlimited runs

I stand corrected, Yet again, apparently some one thinks there is no profit to be made in T2 BPO's but its all in Invention?
So... lets take the logical step here...underpants...profit?

''Geez would CCP stop spamming me with all these worthless T2BPO's how can I possibly make profit from these gifted items with inventors under cutting me all the time?'' Never once said not even by X-BOB members.

Remove Invention T2 production should be for CCP's chosen players just like it originally was. Noobs don't deserve the ability to make T2. As for T3 what the **** where are the BPO's? get them out to pets ASAP!

Try to copy it next time...

Yeah about that... the server was peaking at over 40k players which is higher than tranquillity which was nice but sadly it's kinda drifting off now. Also they make it kinda hard to pay. Also I'm happy to see this post get necro'd and I'm here just to throw petrol on the fire. Although to be fair T2BPO's glaring flaws does not really need any more fuel.

Also I'm 100% for T2BPO now.

T2BPO's are the best thing in game, if you don't have one tough **** you should have been around when CCP was chucking them to their mates for **** all. Actually lest than **** all, garbage is currently worth around 12 isk per unit. RP is worth less than that. Anyway if you want one your going to have to pay for it by buying plex or getting your ass onto Ebay where you can RMT one because there ain't no other way your getting it.

Your not ganking it because there is zero reason for a t2bpo to leave a station and your not stealing it because he magical BPO locks prevent you stealing them. Sure you can still use it though. CCP really ought to allow supercaps to be locked incase someone loses 1 in combat.

That's why you have at least ten BPOs.

Those BPOs cost you exactly 0 isk. so 40 billion per month for 0 isk investment is quite good.

For example there's 20-25 Scimi BPOs left in the game. There was around 200 but most of them burned in wrecks or something weird happened to them.

I'll fly a different ship or use a different tower, and get similar or more benefits. There are enough alternatives. However, if I want to produce T2 without the hassle of invention then there is no way for me to create a T2 BPO.

Fine, I'll clarify. They are limited and if you want to collect them then you can because there won't be any more (as they exist today). However, they have a real purpose isn't duplicated by any other item: to create T2 without the invention process and make a ton of ISK while doing so. So they have unique purpose in the game other than being collected.

Said a thousand times over they won't admit it.

T2BPO ROI is off the charts. If we take a value of RP invested into the ''lottery'' and we look at the value of the T2BPO's dished out. If the lottery was fair (it wasn't) and it sunk more isk than it dealt out then we would not have a problem with T2BPO's.

The return in investment is phenomenal. The original investment for a T2BPO was nothing and that nothing could become an instant 600 billion along side a guaranteed 5 billion isk risk free per month on the very best blue prints.

CCP completely de-legitimised the EVE economy by gifting content that completely over valued the effort required to obtain it. Untill T2BPO's are removed from the game the EVE online economy will be nothing but a sham and to call it player driver is slanderous and false advertising. CCP controls the eve economy through gifts to players.

The cost of opportunity was nothing you dip ****. All you had to do was enter a lottery. A lottery that had no place existing as it was gifting items without taking any equal capital in return. Such a lottery could only exist in a fictional economy such as EVE's. Anyone who says the eve economy is player driven or realistic is wrong for this reason.

CCP controls the eve economy and until they remove T2BPO's that will always be the case. As long as T2BPO's remain CCP has no right to call the eve realistic. It is purely a fabrication driven by them.

A tower's function is to run reacton, moon harvest, research BPO, etc. Any tower can do this. So a faction tower uses 10% less fuel? You're comparing this to a T2 BPO bypassing the costs and effort of invention? With a T2 BPO, you can build off it using 1 hr of effort per month saving plenty of cost and logistics compared to invention (invest in T1 BPO, tower, make BPC, buy datacore, decryptor).

What about all the future dust players who may want to partake in eve online and the T2 lottery?

How are they going to fare against the established community, this is why the T2 situation needs to be looked into, remove not remove, just made fair, and theftable/scamable.
this is EvE.

Id like to see the numbers swell to 100K online on the servers one day, that would be much better then looking at the few grappling on to their precious.

Deal with IT.

They cant profit from their shiny new BPO's they cant whoopsie from some ones corp hanger now can they.

Im glad we can agree on something.

Oh and, Why again are these CEO's Teaching "Newer Industrialists" how to make T2 items NOT from invention? I could have swore some one said that was more profitable.

Unlocking Blueprints just makes the Original owner, not collect passive ISK while their watching a "LazyTown Marathon" thats quite possibly another form of Passive ISK.

Removing them without fixing the -4/-4 normal invention doesn't fix the problem. You will just drive cost up on everyone, minus the Alliances and they how corner certain markets. CCP would have to make invent BPC's somehow researchable, and that would have to be able to done by anyone and any security system.

Pick which side of the coin you want? Alliances running BPO's or running invention folks to the rules they make.

They have the capital to screw either side of the coin. CCP will not remove that...

Dam straight T2BPO owners should be driven into one man corps if they want to play with CCP isk welfare. Then they can be war dec'd on a daily basis so people can smash **** out of their posses.

CCP remove T2BPO let eve grow.

Horrible ROI for new players. Astronomical ROI for players who were gifted them. Can you please stop making out that T2BPO's somehow cost their owners massive amounts of effort or isk as it's simply not the case. If it did take massive amounts of effort or ISK then T2BPO would not be a problem. Unfortunately T2BPO is a problem and a huge flaw in EVE that needs solved if the game is to grow.

And everyone also knows that some parts of the lottery was fixed which means some person where gifted with t2 bpos. Most of them where in BoB back then which was the power house of that era in eve.

What does WWII tank has to do with EVE?

And no, lottery hasn't changed in last 5 years.

It's a change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lottery

I was looking forward to doing T2 industry and even though select t2 fields are open to noobs where demand surpasses T2BPO production numbers I choose not to engage in the activity. I don't see why I should be offered the scraps while CCP has selected a player to have first pickings and a monopoly over that item.

I do however produce T2 rigs and other items where CCP has not given a chosen player the ability to out perform noobs. Yet I still hope CCP introduces BPO's for rigs and for T3. As all of you lot are saying T2BPO's don't harm the game what so ever and are all round amazing so please CCP seed T3 BPO's and rig BPO's because as you can see they are great just ask idiots such as shar'ra matcevsovski . She'll explain why gifted BPO's are great for the game.

I think a system could work where invention would be "newb" T2 production with low barrier to entry and then vets would be able to buy expensive T2 BPOs from NPCs just like any other BPO is available from NPCs. The prices on them could be relatively high compared to build cost.

because we would like to but on fair terms, [we] the 99%

as for the original owners, I dont think they would be hurt much, as their obviously profitless 600B T2 BPO's would be unprofitable either way.

Giving inventions a 100 100 stat instead of a -10 -10 would be a great solution to the problem. It may destroy margins in some markets but it would open the playing field to all industrialists of EVE and not those players CCP chose to produce T2 or those players who purchased the right via BPO.

Buff invention and make T2BPO's irrelevant. That way T2BPO owners could not complain as there BPO's have not been touched.

All those who speak out against the dumbfuckery that is T2BPO along the years are my alts.

If present counts stand I have over 1000 accounts so CCP hey up remove T2BPO before you lose 1/30th of your player base.

A significant portion of useful T2 BPOs have changed hands for ISK, as opposed to still being in the original hands.
So, actually, yes, a good number of T2 BPOs did cost their current owners a lot of ISK.

Where are all these people I only ever see 29k to 32k except my 1k on at any one time? I think you're over estimating EVE's player base. Weekend numbers rarely rise over 35k at peak time nowadays.

Good point. release a T2BPO winners list so we can see which players and corporations had the T2BPO's dished out to. After all it was a lottery and all players deserve to see a winners list.

Oh CCP is not going to publish the list? Then I call corruption. The lottery was corrupt and CCP simply chose which players to give the best T2BPO's to and until a winners list is published my call of corruption is relevant. The only difference with T20 Vincent was that he got caught.

Was T20 a tank?

Or was it fictional character created by someone?

No one has a problem with unique ships. Unique ships don't stop me undocking in my regular ships, T2BPO does however rule out complete areas of T2 manufacture.

If CCP gave a selected few players a special ship that insta'd titans and was indestructible we'd call this a game imbalance, such an imbalance exists in regards to T2 manufacture.

The only people here who are bad at math are CCP. They gave out content who's value far exceeded any effort put into the game to achieve or acquire, they then stoped giving out this content. That is the worse math this game has seen and yet CCP have failed to correct this error and simply allows the error to multiply and compound with each passing day.

Why are you still arguing with this troll after all these pages??

Forcing other players to stop T2 manufacturing would be good. T2 BPO owners should be allowed to control T2 market.

I've heard that trying to do everything is bad for profit. Produce or sell, not both.

Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.

Well, the troll has a sliver of truth tacked on to the end of his ranting, inventors do limit T2 BPO owners' possible profits in any of the reasonably high traffic markets (they limit it amongst themselves for low-traffic markets).

Exactly. Monopoly is always good for everyone. Even RL has proved that: nothing can compete against Microsoft.

Where has anybody in this thread* said that? Quote and Link.

*aside from you and Brewlar in sad attempts at setting up straw men to argue against

You used word "monopoly" without knowing what it means.

Where has anybody in this thread* said that? Quote and Link.

*aside from you and Brewlar in sad attempts at setting up straw men to argue against

Then you should know that it's better for you as T2 BPO owner.

Have you actually read this thread?

Where has anybody in this thread* said that? Quote and Link.

*aside from you and Brewlar in sad attempts at setting up straw men to argue against

Have you actually read this thread?

Point T2 BPO owners are making in this thread is that they want to get rid off inventors, because inventors lower their possible profit.

they want to get rid off inventors

Currently profit you as T2 BPO owner get from your investment is very small. That should be fixed.
And because we are in cold and harsh universe cap between elite players and lesser players should be bigger.

No info about barge changes in February/March on forums...

It's only a monopoly because they closed the lottery.

Sadly yes, they are produced at a fraction of the cost as they don't require any invention costs such as data cores, t1 copying and decryptors. It is true that the T2BPO's required research points to obtain but the number was so unbelievably small for what the T2bpo is worth it's not even worth factoring.

T2BPO's also have a much higher ME an P than the invented copies which have -10 -10. A buff to invention so that inventions have 100 100 ME and P would be a welcome nerf to T2BPO's.

On that note I'm going to stop posting here again and let the thread slide down the list until it gets necro'd by some one else discovering the crap T2BPO situation for the first time. I should really have put this thread in the eve general where it could easily have got 500 pages by now.

''Stop lying'' so T2BPO and inventions have the same M and P efficiency? Well good to know we can close this thread now and that CCP has finally fixed it's most terrible mistake after all these years . Hint, hint CCP, fix T2BPO bring invented T2 BPC's up to spec with regards to M & P efficiency.'